Are You A "Chase The Feeling" Christian? SHOULD You Desire To ENCOUNTER God?

AI Generated Transcript (I only fixed the mis-spelling of my name and added one extra paragraph break - I left the rest of the mess just the way AI delivered it haha):

are you an emotionally unstable experience focused christian whose faith depends on your emotional encounters in church welcome to jon's voice notes where i jon pick a topic that's on my heart or mind whatever i want to talk about today and i go stream of consciousness without any plan and see what happens

It's blazing hot out here in Northern Illinois. It's like 90 degrees or something, but it feels like higher than 100 according to the weather report. It's been sunny and beautiful though, just hot. I walked outside for a few minutes earlier and I could feel like I was baking in an oven. So still beautiful visually, but kind of uncomfortable temperatures. But let's get to it. So

Have you ever been warned or heard that you shouldn't be an experience-based Christian like those charismaniacs? You need to base your faith on something more solid? I want to talk about that from a couple of angles. One, or I don't know, A, in the first place, pick an intro. Is it wrong to want to experience God?

Is it wrong? When Adam and Eve were first created, God walked with them in the cool of the morning in the garden. Not 100% sure what that means. Was God in human form? Was he a wind that they sensed? I don't know. But it's like they were designed not only to know his commands,

But they were designed to know him. They were designed to encounter him. They were designed to, among other things, experience him. I know that when I was younger, I suppose I was always younger before right now, right? A long time ago, let's say like that, I hit a stage in my faith where I was desperate to encounter God in a real way.

I had grown up, became born again when I was four. And there are lots of signs in my life that that was authentic, an authentic conversion at four years old. But there were other kind of stages throughout my life, you know, of becoming an adult Christian and taking ownership.

But there came a stage where I had some doubts and some friends at school asked me some intellectual questions like, how do you know this is the true religion? What about all the other religions? Isn't it arrogance to think your beliefs are true? So I went through a season of studying, studying

Apologetics, reading Josh McDowell and Gary Habermas, and those are more on the evidence side, and reading Francis Schaeffer, more on a philosophical side. And God really helped me to see that it was intellectually reasonable to believe in Christianity. But I was not satisfied with that. I was strongly desiring something more than that.

I wasn't even sure what exactly it was that I was desiring, but I wanted to touch God or encounter God. And you know what I did not really mean? I did not mean I wanted to feel his presence during the music at church.

i had felt such things before but it's not what i meant i remember way back when i was a kid i went to a pentecostal church so i remember everyone there would be this pause in the music or not a pause pause in the written words where there was just kind of a lull and you know the piano or whatever playing and then people would just be singing in english and in tongues and just this beautiful beautiful sound

I hadn't experienced those things, but I remember just sitting there in church, just kind of like in awe and amazed at this beautiful, beautiful sense of God's presence. So I knew about that, experiencing God, you know, the thing that some Christians seem to think is bad.

But I wasn't looking for that. I wasn't looking for just an emotional feeling. I don't know if I could even articulate it, but the way I prayed it, the way I prayed it was kind of nuts, but this is what my heart wanted. This wasn't

trying to be theologically correct or trying to do it right. I was desperate to know God. And I used to go out. If you've ever heard my testimony, I talk about this a lot. This comes up. I used to go out on this old blue Ford pickup truck of my dad's. It was kind of like mine practically, but it was my dad's.

And I would go park in a parking lot somewhere and just sit there and cry out to God. I mean, literally, loud, loud, seeking him. And I would say, God, I want to see your face. Because I'd seen in the Bible about different kings and different people seeking God's face. Still not 100% sure what that means. But I was like, God, I want to see your face. I want to touch you. I want your real, I want something very real encounter with you.

And I used to say, come down into this truck right now and show yourself to me. I don't know what I was expecting. I don't remember. Like, I don't know if I had an imagination of what that would be like. I just know I was desperate and I was hungry.

And the intellectual information that seemed to be real and true and accurate about proving the believability and reasonableness of the resurrection of Jesus and the Bible's accuracy and reliability, all of those things, commonly known as evidence-based apologetics. And then other philosophical things like Christianity is the only cohesive explanation for the world.

Things from Francis Schaeffer. I don't know if he would consider himself presuppositional, but basically more of a faith and philosophical side than evidence-based. Both of those had been in my life, but that wasn't enough for me. I was hungry for, I was just a desperate young man.

And quite a while later, I went through a season of kind of some strong depression. This is decades ago now. And then I was at a youth event at the end of 1990 and the beginning of 1991. We literally had this event between those at the end of the year, the beginning of the year. And during that event,

there was a some sort of an altar call i think it was like for moral purity which what young man you know in his late teens early 20s or i don't i think it was 19 or 20 at the time maybe 19 doesn't need some help with some moral purity you know the hormones are raging and these fascinating female creatures are roaming the earth

So I think I had gone forward or in some way was responding. But what actually happened is, bam, I got hit by the presence of God in a different way. It was not just a feeling. I haven't ever truly been able to explain this to anyone before.

Because I would call it more of an encounter than a feeling. Like it wasn't just, oh, I feel really good about this music or I feel really good about my time at church or I feel really good about my relationship with God. It was a power encounter where things changed inside me.

I didn't actually know this at the time, but I saw later on that my doubts were gone. My doubts were gone. My depression was completely gone. I was basically healed of doubts and unbelief and depression. But at the time, I just knew this is a powerful, I'm encountering God in a powerful way. And I felt like, I remember looking up into the rafters up in the sky, or the auditorium, not the sky.

And I felt like I was looking into the eyes of God. I don't even know if felt is the right word. It seemed like I was. I didn't have a vision. There was nothing visually actually there or not even an illusion or a vision. It was just, this was what the encounter was like. Like I was looking up and he was pouring into me and I was just like, you know, kind of soaking this up.

The only thing I know to call this is a power encounter. It's way beyond an experience. I told an atheist this once, and he said, you need to read the book, The Varieties of Divine Experiences or Religious Experiences or whatever. It's called something like that.

But this was different. I wasn't shaking. I had a rush. No burning in my bosom. None of that. It was a power encounter. It was later on that I realized some of what had happened there. Because I had struggled with doubt. No matter how much I studied intellectually and saw that it was reasonable to believe Christianity, I was just plagued with doubt and what if I'm wrong. Just kind of plagued.

And it was actually later, not that day, I realized that's gone completely. I would try and doubt. I can think the words, what if it's all not true? But I can't believe it. I don't actually have this doubt. I have encountered people since then that are on their own journeys, their own journeys of faith.

And they're trying to kind of get me involved with their seeking. And I'm willing to walk with them or help any way I can.

But when they're trying to, well, don't you wonder if, don't you? And I'm like, no, I don't. I am unshakably confident that Christianity is true. Jesus is real. The Bible is God's word. He has written his story right onto history through the Bible. And this God, Yahweh of the Bible, his son, Yeshua, the Messiah, this is all real and true. I'm able to have doubts about different ideas or I'm not sure how to interpret this in the Bible or that or whatever.

What about this theological approach? I can have that kind of doubt. But that the whole thing is true, I don't have any doubt. It's like someone asked me once, so what if someone showed you evidence that disproved your faith? Would you then give up your faith? And I thought to myself, well, the faith I actually have is that that's impossible.

My actual faith is not, even if there was evidence proving that I was wrong, I would still stubbornly hold on to my beliefs. It's like that doesn't even make any sense because what my actual faith is, there is no such evidence will ever be found. That's what I actually believe.

And if it may appear to be found, this is something useful for your own faith journey. It may appear someone may find something or this makes it look like whatever in the Bible isn't true. I would not think, uh-oh.

uh-oh, was I wrong? Maybe this isn't true after all. I wouldn't think that. I would just think, well, it'll get sorted eventually. This is a mistake or something that isn't fully explained. Archaeologists and scientists and philosophers, they act more confident than they are. They bring their biases in more than maybe you think they are. At least that's what I think is happening.

So I don't have a faith that even if all the evidence proves me wrong, I'll believe it anyway. I have a faith that that's not going to happen. Now, some specific issue it might happen, but that would be more like I find something in the Bible and realize, oh, man, this assumption I've had, I was off on that. Because you know what? We all have a whole set of assumptions and beliefs.

And it takes a lifetime to keep working on those to get them all in alignment with God. So I'm regularly like, you know, God is still working on me, working on my thoughts. I have my own biases that I'm blind to. Some I kind of see, some I'm sure I'm blind to. But at the end of the day, I encountered God. And it was beyond an experience, okay? This was more than an experience. I want to be cautious. I don't know that I have ever heard anyone tell a testimony quite like mine.

I've heard of other power encounters.

I can't tell you you should seek to have an encounter like mine or that your faith is less if you didn't have an encounter like mine. Or if you have doubt, I think it's possible that there's some people that have doubt, but there's an underlying undergirding of faith and they keep pursuing God anyway for their whole life, even though their doubts aren't resolved. I'm not saying that's God's will because I don't know. I'm just saying that person might have greater faith than I do.

Because they hold on. They hold on and pursue God even when they're plagued by doubts or struggles. So I just want to be careful. I don't want to say, you need to experience this. Because like I said, I don't think I've ever heard anyone quite tell a story like mine. Probably the closest I can actually think of is the Apostle Paul.

And his would have been considerably greater encounter than mine because there was a visual and an audible encounter that wasn't just an internal revelation. It was a, you know, he was blinded and fell off his horse and heard the voice of Jesus, you know, audibly heard. I mean, that was like times 20 what I encountered. But what I encountered is like a similar, it's like I, you know, I was one way, right?

Sorry, this makes me emotional. I was one way and now I am completely different. And the thing that happened in between was him.

I encountered Jesus. I didn't see him. I didn't hear an audible voice. I kind of wanted to, but that's not what happened. He did something inside. It's like he turned a switch. He turned a switch and I became a different man.

for the rest of my life. I mean, that launched me into a good 10 year explosion of faith. And then I had new struggles and a new kind of growth that I needed to go into after that. Another night, you know, dark night of the soul. But that rocket is still launching me.

Now, I want to argue to you that this is different from just feeling good in church. I think a person who's not even a true convert to Christ, maybe they're a fake convert or they've never even heard the gospel, but they can experience something in church and go out and say, wow, that was really powerful. So those who criticize, you know, experience-based Christianity, or it's not about your experiences or your emotions. Well, yeah, they're right about that. However,

I would hope that everyone, and I don't want to stir the wrong, I don't want to stir a comparison to my story. But of course you want to encounter God. Of course you want to encounter Jesus, however that is. However he works in you, which could be different than he worked in me.

Let that hunger drive you for your whole life, whether you get huge breakthroughs and power encounters or whether you're just quietly drifting along. I think of Brother Lawrence, who highly influenced me in practicing the presence of God.

He talks in there about a season where he didn't even know if he was saved. I don't remember if he used that language, but he was worried about his eternal destiny, and he just kept seeking God. I don't know if he had a born-again experience. It was more like he eventually just...

put it in God's hands and let it go, which is probably another way of saying he put faith in Christ for his salvation. And he grew, and he just grew deeper and deeper in his relationship with God. So the power encounter can be different, and you shouldn't judge based on me or Brother Lawrence or the Apostle Paul.

You don't need any experience of that kind to be a legitimate believer. But I bet you're hungry for God. I bet if you are a believer, I bet you're hungry. You want to hear him in your spirit. You want to know him. You do want to encounter him. And sometimes you want to feel his presence, and nothing wrong with that. It's not really the best basis. You know, the...

Because, you know, when you have a season where you're not feeling much, for whatever reason, it could be natural reasons, it could be health reasons, it could be hard times, it could be crisis, emergencies, something really bad happened in your life, where you don't feel God. You need a deeper faith than your feelings, because I guarantee you, those times will come. You know, I don't know anyone who has kind of walked constantly feeling the presence of God forever. I don't even know if Jesus...

felt that we know at least once he said oh you know why have you forsaken me i think he was you know maybe quoting the old testament there but you know he he it appears that he felt forsaken by the father at least in his feelings right so you don't you definitely don't want a feelings based faith

But two things. One, I think a power encounter goes way beyond feelings. There's an encounter that goes beyond your feelings. I think it's natural for a Christian to hunger for that. In an extent, we're all hungering for the fullness of that. I've had those power encounters at times, but I'm also still hungry. I'm hungering and thirsting after righteousness. I'm hungering and thirsting after Jesus. There's a sense in which that won't be fully fulfilled

until I die and I ascend to the presence of God in a more direct way and discover what resurrection life is like on the other side of eternity, on the other side of this life. So we're designed for something, I think a more consistent and powerful encounter with God, but we live in a fallen world where now we see through a glass darkly, right?

But I think it's a correct criticism, or I don't know if criticism is the right word, a correct warning. You don't want a feelings-based faith. You want something deeper. But love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. A part of your heart and soul and your strength, a part of your physical body, a part of your soul reality is you feel things.

So love the Lord your God with your feelings. And that means faithfully pursuing him when you don't feel him, but also delighting when you do. May you have many times where you do sense the presence of God. Why would you not want that? Why would you criticize that?

Warning to not base your faith on that makes sense to me, but criticizing that as if you somehow, like some of the non-charismatic world, they like to criticize the charismatic world for this. But interestingly, some of those same people, the reason they think charismatics are all nuts is because it's something they've experienced with them. They might name that first before they'll name their theological differences. But what about corrupt, wacko, famous preacher so-and-so?

It's like, okay, so you experienced a quack. What does this have to do with what is or is not true? Just because somebody's out there doing something crazy doesn't mean feeling the presence of God isn't real.

Why would you not want to feel God in church? You want to have a faith where you're going to pursue him even if you don't on those days when you don't. You don't want people coming to church just based on what they might feel there because no worship team is so awesome that every time everybody feels great during worship. No pastor is so good at preaching that every single time he preaches, everybody feels the power of God. Sometimes it's a flop, or at least it feels like a flop. Sometimes worship is just kind of, you know,

Whatever. The singing time, whatever kind of church you go to, the singing time may or may not be as robust as you want it to. Yes, have a deeper faith in those surface things, but there's nothing wrong with desiring both feeling the presence of God. Nothing wrong with desiring that. Nothing wrong at all. And also desiring the power encounter. I think I want the power encounter more than the feeling.

The disciples all had a power encounter on the day of Pentecost where the Holy Spirit came down and kaboom, they were empowered. I have experienced that. No, I've never seen flames. But I've experienced more than once that sense of just electric power when preaching or when ministering in some way and just zap. It's like all of a sudden I'm plugged in. That's God. That's not how awesome I am.

And it's for his purposes. And you know what? I need to be faithful to preach whether that happens or not. I need to give my best, give the Lord's best in me, whether I feel it, whether there's a power encounter or not. But boy, do I love it when I get to plug in and sense that I'm plugged in and feel the lightning go through me into the people that are listening. And zap, we're all like, whoa, God, I've been preaching before and felt like I'm listening.

like wow that was pretty good you know who's talking is that me oh wow you know so how did this all start are you some i think i was talking about you some sort of loser emotion feeling based christian who listens to uh jesus is my boyfriend music some of the people that i really love and follow and learn from they talk about you know charismatics and their list of you know

and popular trends like Jesus is my boyfriend music. I always want to kind of joke with him if I knew him more personally, you know, hey, thanks. It's been great talking to you. Now I have to go out to my car and turn on some Jesus is my boyfriend music because I love, love songs to Jesus that are, I love encountering God in a singing time. Just me and him are in church. I love that. And why not? Why not? Like when you go to a baseball game,

or a football game or a basketball or soccer or whatever, and your team scores, you feel a rush, you know, and you shout and you applaud with everybody. It's like, it's a rush. It's a real powerful rush. Is there something wrong with experiencing God that way in church?

you know, times where everyone is together having some sort of an encounter, or sometimes it's just you and the Lord right there in the midst of everyone. Everyone else is just having kind of a normal day and you're like, you know, soaking in this massive power, power presence of God, right?

So don't base your faith on it. The critics are right about that. However, there's nothing wrong. I can't find anything in my Bible that says don't desire to experience God and don't look for a power encounter. Jesus said, go to Jerusalem and wait until you're clothed with power from on high. I guess some people think that was just one event in all of history. But all through the Acts, other people had it happen to them too. And to this day,

People are still being empowered by God in that way. All right. I feel like I'm starting to beat this horse to death here. But I strongly desire that you, dear listener, all one of you,

What I want to say to you today is don't base your faith on feelings, but it's okay to be hungry to sense God's presence. It's okay to be hungry to sense his power. It's okay to be hungry to enjoy worshiping him, enjoy experiencing him.

And then on the days where for whatever reason you're not, you persevere and you pursue them anyway, just like in a marriage. I don't, you know, if I see my wife and I'm not feeling all in love because I'm washing the dishes or whatever, nothing has changed. I still love her. And then there's other times I see her and I just feel it deeply.

Would I be like, because I don't want my marriage to be based only on feelings, do I then deny the feelings or not desire them or not want them? No, I want to have them. I love it. It's a gift from God. In the same way, feelings, emotions, and good experiences with God are a gift from God. And even more so, and a little bit different but similar, and I don't know, maybe not the same at all, power encounters.

So seek the Lord, whether you feel an experience, whether you have a power encounter or not, but delight in joy and even desire experiencing God and power encounters with God. So that was a super long voice notes, probably the longest yet, but it's a worthy topic. So thank you so much for listening today. 

This is Jon and Jon's voice notes signing off.